|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
18
   |
Posted - 2014.10.15 19:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:barely coherent babbling about a dropsuit being able to carry both a rifle and a swarm launcher
Commando suit says hi. You should say hi back sometime.
DDx77 wrote:ridiculous babbling about swarm launchers being turned into a sidearm
I disagree with the idea of a swarm launcher being a sidearm. For one thing, AV support fire, IMO, is something that would seem suited to three classes in particular- the Commando (since 2 light weapon slots are pretty cool), the Sentinel (Forge Gun says BLAP), and, IMO, the Logi.
But the Logi one would really require some new equipment items introduced into the game. Because no, a swarm launcher (or Plascan) should not be mounted as equipment. |
Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
18
|
Posted - 2014.10.15 19:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Yes, let's make swarms a sidearm. I can fire two shots with my forge gun then finish them off before they can complete the escape maneuver after they think they're in the clear!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
And that, children, is why making swarms a sidearm is the idiot ball idea of AV.
I agree completely. However, I've got something of a pet idea of having a substantially-weaker variant of the swarm launcher as an equipment item- what do you think of this?
I ask because you seem to have that rare ability to discern if an idea is fundamentally flawed and/or stupid, and then *gasps* actually say so!
I wish more people had that gift. |
Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 03:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:You are aware the flaylock does AV damage now, right?
go forth and do dumb things.
I'd heard it proposed as a potential buff for the flaylock, but no, I actually did not know that. However, what precisely is the flaylocks efficiency % against vehicles? That's the real kicker; Mass Drivers, for example, are usually about 44% efficiency against vehicles, and I personally believe the breach variant should deal full damage to vehicles.
(I was actually in a tank duel, my Soma vs a Sica, IIRC, I was blaster fit, he was rail+dmg fit, he's down to about 400 armor, and I overheat, so I jump out in my Ammando and blew him up with a Mass Driver).
This being said, I have some preference for my idea as 75% of logi suits do not have sidearm slots. Still have to flesh it out a bit more though....
Also, I feel like I do enough dumb things right now (scout ak0 with a militia magsec+militia scrambler pistol... yeah, not my shining moment of intelligence).
True Adamance wrote:I'm not against it....but side arm Swarms when I get a coaxial Small Turret on my Tank.
My idea is, more specifically, a swarm launcher variant that is single-shot and fires three missiles instead of four (thus dealing 75% damage across all variants in comparison to the actual swarm), and goes into the equipment slot.
This being said, the lack of coaxial weapon mounts for tanks is, IMO, incredibly egregious. I absolutely support coaxial gun mounts for tanks- especially since the coding for it would likely be usable for having multiple pilot controlled weapons in the eventual fighter jets and MTACs.
God I can't wait for Legion.
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:That made laugh lol and yeah you can use commandos but idk it wouldn't be the same than to have a specific thing now. I mean, it does do a good job at it, bu lt something made for it will always be better. Here was my idea=
Med suit
Light weapon
Av weapon (swarm)
Av nades
1 equip slot(re ir nanohives)
G2low2high a3low1high c1low3high m2high1low
Adjusted pg/cpu so that it won't be op
X amount of hp and x amount of reps without modules missle resistant shields(x % reduction to something whatever)
Yes, I live to amuse other forumites. /sarcasm
In all seriousness, right now the best suits for use as AV platforms are the heavy frame/sentinel (because Forge Gun), the Commando (becauses Swarms+usually rifle, sometimes mass driver/plascan), and the scout suit (because swarms+proxies+AV nades).
IMO, remotes are subpar AV weapons- there's too many things that have to go just right for them to really be a consistently viable weapon. In contrast, proxies can be used to either deny a path of retreat, or booby trap said path- really only depends on how attentive the LAV/HAV driver is. Plascan is also, IMO, a bit better for close quarters AV, but Swarms are pretty much what most players use as the gold standard of AV weapons.
Also, I think that you AV suit concept is fundamentally flawed. For one, the dirty Minmatar seem to get shafted on slot count (only 3 slots total compared to 4 for everyone else?), for two the vehicle turret resist isn't really how the resist system works, and finally (IE, "3"), what you describe would just be a medium frame Commando that also had a grenade slot.
Given that that's the case, the Commando- which is slow, has a large hitbox, and no grenade slot- would be obsoleted overnight by something that is faster, has a smaller hitbox, a grenade slot, and is otherwise nearly identical. Especially the part where you seem to imply that all of these suits would have some kind of innate armor repair- it really kills the Commando as a suit type for all but the most niche of uses.
Which is both sad and symptomatic of the fact that, AFAIK at least, most players use the Commando suit to carry an AV weapon and a rifle. Which is incredibly uninventive. |
Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 17:07:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Last time I pointed it I was seeing 80% on the reticle.
Used it to polish off an incubus that had foolishly landed to recall.
I now have a burning desire to verify this. Could become very interesting and entertaining to troll tankers with. Because there's really only one tanker I know of that I wouldn't troll*.
Nothing Certain wrote:To those who say Commando every time swarms are discussed, I think you need to look at what you give up for that extra light weapon.
Breakin Stuff wrote:This tendency is a clear sign someone has no imagination and/or poorly understands the interplay of AV/V poorly.
Snipped down to just the relevant portions.
As I'm 99% certain I was the first person to bring up the Commando in this thread, my reason for doing so is simple:
OP describes a suit that can carry both a light weapon and swarms. That suit already exists. "B-b-but it's not a medium frame!" Well, boo-freakin'-hoo, you have to make a decision on what tradeoffs to accept. Welcome to DUST, where that's supposed to be a core concept.
I certainly agree that the Commando isn't always the best option for carrying swarms- my personal opinion is that scouts and the AmLogi are a bit better, and it's mostly because you can mix'n'match nanos, remotes, proxies, and anything else you might find desirable along with a swarm launcher, sidearm, and some kind of grenade.
Obviously scouts also have the potential utility of cloaking, and AmLogis are slow as hell and will probably require an LAV to get around, but the point does stand.
Especially now with Hotfix Delta having buffed quite a few sidearms. Running an assault suit with swarms and a sidearm for defense is more viable than ever. It's also the same reason the AmLogi is a great swarm suit- slap on the swarms, add a sidearm, season to taste with anti-vehicle-oriented goodies in the equipment slots, and BOOM, you have an anti-vehicle fit that is very capable AND versatile.
But most of the time players complain that they have to sacrifice their rifles to carry swarms. So the natural reaction is "hey, looketh over there" and point out the Commando suit which can carry a rifle and a swarm launcher.
Or if you happen to be clinically/certifiably insane, you can carry a Plascan and swarms. Because defending yourself against infantry by COMMANDO PUNCH is pretty freakin' awesome.**
*That would be True Adamance. Not only is he, like myself, loyal to the glorious Empire, but he also seems to have a greater interest in vehicle balance than any other tanker I've seen.
**Totally unrelated, but I've gotten more melee kills during the sidearm event than I can remember getting during the entirety of my DUST career previous to the sidearm DDM. My favorite so far was melee killing another scout who, IIRC, was armed with nova knives. |
Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2014.10.16 18:13:00 -
[5] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Yea to kill an armour tank, it has to be a ****** fit or the driver has to be unaware or something but don't underestimate the PLC. With good skills even the Advanced KLA Plasma cannon wrecks shield tanks.
True story: I once solo'd a Madrugar with a standard-level Plascan and the Amarr Commando suit, way back when Ammando was THE 'mando and Plascans were ultra-bad.
The driver was obviously an idiot, considering he just sat there the entire time getting shot in the proverbial face. But I blew up his tank and him with it.
I felt like I could take on the whole universe. Of course, that promptly got me killed by some infantry nugget, but hey, that moment- much like the time I melee'd a NK scout to death- will love on in my memory FOREVER. |
Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2014.10.17 19:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Before I start being nice, I'll be a little know-it-all:
If you spec into grenades at all, you get all grenades. Which means if you're using locus or flux, then you have access to AV grenades. So, you know. As they say in EVE- "HTFU".
With that out of the way:
I agree that there should be more potential AV threats on field... but that the firepower these threats possess should be weaker than that of a proper light weapon (IE, swarms/PLC). It's also my opinion that it should not be a sidearm weapon. For one, as Breakin mentioned, that makes sentinels with Forges potentially the ultimate AV solution- bad idea is bad, as it were.
For two, it (once again) shafts Logis. That's why I think that such a weapon should go into equipment. I even ran the basic concept past some ADS pilots and they seemed to be okay with it (they also seemed more reasonable about the state of ADSs than the more vocal pilot forumites, so there's that). This then gives logis a non-slayer method of offensive support that makes assaults think "hey, we should bring a logi as part of our squad".
Heavies already love logis... scouts generally operate without logis due to the design-intent behind scout roles (obviously this is not exactly accurate to the current state of the game), and assault disparage logis endlessly because "logis aren't supporting me". Well, it's hard for a logi to support teammates that he cannot keep up with.
Keep in mind that some tankers are either mounting secondary guns with gunners manning them- or they are playing sort-of-smart but sort-of-risk-averse. That is to say, the minute they get shot at with AV weapons, they run all the way to the redline. There's certainly those that don't- they're either stupid/brave enough to face off with you or they're finding other places to hide.
As a final take-away, the balance that must be struck with non-primary weapon AV solutions is that they must be weaker than their light weapon brothers, but they must be easy and economical to equip. |
Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
23
|
Posted - 2014.10.18 18:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
CLONE117 wrote:id rather see swarms get a free fire variant instead. thats my idea for a buff.
To perhaps drive discussion in this direction, what if we changes the assault swarm launcher from being "lock two targets" (which is actually quite useless), to "dumbfire, reduced direct-damage, moderately increased splash damage&radius"?
This could bring a weapon that is theproverbial unicorn of DUST out onto the field- which, IMO, is only a good thing.
EDIT: also, what is up with the side-to-side scroll bar on this post? That's seriously weird, and seems to be a permanent fixture of this particular post. |
|
|
| |
|